Tims Ford Smallmouth - even bad anglers get lucky

donberry

New member
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Long story - I am very verbose - sorry. If you skip the story, make sure u see the pics at the end.
1st, I have found out I am a terrible angler. Grew up fishing with my brother who really is the best angler I have ever seen, so I always caught a bunch of fish. Moved down to Tennessee 18 years ago and he moved to Cape Coral (he now has a charter service of course) and never had a boat so really have not fished in the past 10+ years as it is not easy to do much shore fishing on Tims (I live about 8 minutes away). Got a boat in January that turned out to be a great deal and around June I got back into fishing hot and heavy - thinking even tho I had a long "layoff", I knew what I was doing and was better than your average angler.
Not true. Turns out left on my own, I am really bad. Some of it is learning how to fish a deep water reservoir as I grew up fishing at a lake that was 40' deep max with an average depth of maybe 10-12'. As you know, Tims is 10' deep only inches from shore. I also never really fished for smallmouth before, always largemouth and crappie. But still, find the bait fish and find the fish, how hard can it be ? Turns out pretty hard. Bought a Lowrance HDS 5, a ton of new tackle and I thought I was set.
Summer fishing was not bad, but was mainly catching white bass and 10-13" smallmouth and largemouth. I want to learn how to catch smallmouth and just blamed it on the hot weather as I never had much luck. September rolled around and I happened to be in the right place at the right time, catching bass coming in for feeding frenzies. They would come off the incline about every 5 minutes, go nuts attacking the bait fish on a shallow for about 4-5 minutes, then go back to the incline - repeating this for a good hour and a half or so. Caught them this way twice in a row. Slayed them, I was catching a fish every cast during that 4-5 minutes. Mostly 12-14" smallmouth, but I did catch a couple of 24" largemouth.
I made the mistake of thinking I had the lake figured out when I was just lucky.
After that, fishing at least twice a week, usually 3 times, I rarely caught any bass and if I did it was small largemouth from pounding the shoreline - not what I wanted to do but got tired of not catching fish.
I scoured (still do) the internet for any and all smallmouth info I could find and was buying anything that was getting good reports bait wise. I do think some of my problem was I am too impatient, switching lures too quickly. Even got a downrigger and still could not catch a fish. I would troll for hours using live bait, bucktail jigs, lures etc - would troll right thru huge schools of bait fish and still couldn't buy a decent fish, usually ending pounding the shore line so I could at least catch a small largemouth. The more I became obsessed, the less I caught.
I did decide I need to hire a guide (still saving my money for it) just so I can learn what I am doing wrong. I believe I have the right tackle and am at least close to the right spots, I think I just need some fine tuning.
Dec 2 2011 - water temp was 57-58 degrees, sunny, little wind - water clarity good - was going to be the last warm day with little wind for a week or so, so I hit the lake around 10:00 am planning on fishing till dark, as usual. Was not having any luck so shot over to Holiday marina and picked up some live bait. They were "out" of tuffies, waiting for the truck so I bought a dozen shiners. I picked out about 6-7 smaller ones. The guy there was great and said if there were any tuffies in there I could have them for free. Turns out I got a couple of dozen and felt bad, so went in to pay him but he said they were on the house - was really nice of him.
So I trolled around for a while with the small shiners - maybe 3". Seemed a great size to me. Basically hitting every secondary point, creek channels etc and my usual no fish.
Getting late, I worked my way back towards the dock and hit my favorite area. I had switched to a Rapala DT and was working the shore line and the inclines. Came up to some downed trees that every body and their mother hits hard, huge tree and limbs going out to maybe 20-25 feet deep. First cast in the tree I actually caught a fish, I'm so bad it actually surprised me. Turned out to be a nice size blue gill. Not what i was wanting, but at least i wasn't skunked. Hit it a few more times as I drifted by and continued down the shore line. After maybe another 80-100 yards, I circled back, rigging up my crappie rig thinking since it was a nice blue gill, maybe some crappie would be in there also.
My crappie rig. I went down to Cape Coral to do some fishing with my brother over the summer (I caught tons of grouper plus a 10' shark. I have an edited video of me catching it on youtube, but there is an occasional bad word in it so I will not link to it. If you want to see it, search youtube for "dons big shark". Posted by sharkie576. Wow, catching a 10' shark is like catching a compact car - I had to rest for a good half hour after catching it and my arms literally were like jelly).
Anyway, while I was down there, my brother gave me a nice 8'6" ultraligght pole he used for crappie. I have never used a pole that long nor that sensitive before. Is amazing how you literally feel everything going on with it. But, I had yet to catch a fish on it. I have an old Shimano spinning reel on it for now and was using some 7 lb fluorocarbon line on it that did not seem very good - Cajun Line. It was on clearance for like $3.50 so thought I would give it a try before I bought some better fluoro. I was going to just tie on a LONG leader, maybe 10-12 feet, but the line kept breaking. I eventually just spooled the whole reel with it thinking i would only be catching crappie or bream on it anyway so still wanted to give it a try. I obviously had little faith in the line tho.

So I circle back around to where I caught the blue gill on the DT and was now using the crappie rig with a slip bobber and a small shiner. 1st drift thru I am about 3 feet deep and get nothing, not a nibble. Circled back again after drifting by and lowered the shiner to about 8-9 feet. 1st cast as soon as the bobber started to stand up, it took off running for about a foot and then went under so I pulled and set the hook. Wow, I am thinking I finally caught a crappie.
As mentioned, I had never caught a fish on this pole before and had zero faith in my line. I immediately tried to get the "crappie" out of the tree before he wrapped himself up and fortunately he came right out.
I am thinking to myself wow, this pole is something else. This crappie was putting up one heck of a fight. I did not know if it was because the pole was so light or if it was a nice size crappie. The fish stayed deep the whole time and i am still thinking how much fun it is catching a crappie on this pole. Standing on the bow, fighting the fish and trying to keep him from going back into the timer, he finally comes up high enough where I can see it - sure wasn't a crappie. All i could see was a huge thick black bass. I am sure my jaw dropped and my eyes got as big as half dollars.
Instantly I think of my line that I was able to break in my bare hands - all I could think was my line was going to break and all I would have is a fish story "sure you had a nice bass hooked and your line broke".
I immediately ran to the back of the boat and grabbed the net and got it - now this is the feeling I love when i am fishing. Yes I enjoy being on the lake, but I love the adrenaline rush when you get a nice fish.
Turns out if I wanted to catch a nice smallmouth, I should just go crappie fishing - pure luck obviously.
It ended up being 21" long and weighed just under 5 1/2 pounds. Now that is a nice "crappie" and one heck of a fight on a 8 1/2 foot ultralight pole.

And the only reason I caught it was because of the blue gill hitting the Rapala DT, so it was my lucky blue gill.
I am still saving for the guide tho with Xmas it will be a while, but I finally got a decent smallmouth

Here's the bluegill. He did have the hook in his mouth, I did not snag him. I just kept the lure there for sizing - tho he did have that one hook in his back, hooking himself there also when he was fighting obviously.</p>

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and my smallmouth. Been a long time since I have eaten a bass (I threw the 2 24" largemouth back) and surprising to me, I actually liked the smallmouth better than grouper - which was my favorite eating fish. Wife even liked it better. Great texture, great taste. I had something I had to go to when I got home, so picture was taken a few hours later, which is why it is so dark. He was caught about an hour before dark. Sorry for the long story. Hopefully I will be learning how to fish better and this won't be such an unusual fish for me. I don't expect 5 1 /2 lbers every time, but seems to me at Tims I should be catching 2-3 pounders pretty regular. If not, I'll just spend so much time out there sooner or later I will have to luck into some. I am guessing a trip (or 2) out with the guide will be invaluable info for me and hopefully give me an idea where I am going wrong. But until I save my pennies, I'll still be out there enjoying the lake anyway.

Side Note - if anyone ever happens to want to go fishing at Tims either for fun or better yet to show me a trick or 2, just give me a shout and all you will need to do is show up and I will supply the bait (if needed) and gas. My boat is not great, a 19' fish and ski, and the trolling motor is lacking (shaft not long enough and needs more power), but it floats and runs good. Obviously don't rely on me to put you on the fish or apparently to even know what I am doing, but I am always ready to go. I moved down here when I "retired" (diasbled vet) so not having grown up around here (I am from Ohio) and only meeting people thru my kids when they were growing up, I really do not know anyone to go fishing with besides my grown kids and they make me look good if that is possible.</p>

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Hair Jig

New member
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I've got (3) tips for you about Tims Ford ........</p>

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(1) You don't necessarily have to fish deep. We've caught many, many smallmouth from the riprap at the dam in less than 5 feet of water. You just have to learn the places that they like to frequent.</p>

(2) Tims is TOUGH until you learn it. Every place you see looks like it should hold fish. Believe it or not, except during the coldest months the fish will feed early and late on flats with cover such as stumps. Smaller crankbaits and 4" grubs on a 5/16oz or 1/4oz jighead will do the trick.</p>

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(3) Do NOT .... EVER .... eat a smallmouth of that size! Those are the brood stock. Put them back, PLEASE. emoBang </p>

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Seriously ... you might have just caught the smallmouth of your LIFE. I know a lot of guys that have fished religiously for years and have never caught a smallmouth over 5#. That was a trophy, for sure. Congrats on the fish. emoThumbsup (but I wish you hadn't had it for supper!) emoLaugh </p>

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EricM

New member
Congrasts on a great suprise fish or two! Love the story and the pictures. Keep them coming emoThumbsup emoThumbsup
 

blazer

New member
congrats on the smallmouth,i have fished along time for smallmouth and caught alot of them,but have never caught one over 5lbs,thats a trophy for sure.I thought you was just joking about eating it lol.thanks for the report and please keep them coming.
 

donberry

New member
ya, I'm sorry about keeping that one. I normally toss most everything back but it had been such a long dry spell for me I got a little too excited.</p>

 Up until this year when i started fishing again, the only other smallmouth I ever caught here was also a 5 1/2 pounder. I had pretty much just moved here and a guy took me out striper fishing on Dec 23 - going on 19 years now (hmmm, December must be good for the 5+ lbers). Never fished for striper before, didn't even know what they were. We were just drifting shiners down about 20 feet or so. Couple hours out a fish takes my shiner. Brought it in and it was the largest smallmouth I had ever seen. In middle Ohio only smallmouth we ever caught were out of a river and a 12"-13" one was a nice fish.</p>

So I am all excited, like a kid at christmas and the guy I am fishing with just looks at it and says something like "oh, it's just a smallmouth". He did not seem too enthused about it at all. Took some pics and tossed it back and from the way he acted I am thinking that was just a normal size smallmouth down here.
Found out later the guy was strictly a striper angler and was always hunting the big ones. I guess he was disappointed it wasn't a 20 lb striper.
Only fish we caught that day.

Didn't have a boat and fishing from shore is tough here so slowly just drifted away from fishing.
Needed a new hobby so in Jan I finally got a boat. Couldn't start really using it until about late June. Mainly fishing at night and always ended up switching to white bass after a couple of hours. Early fall quit fishing for anything but smallmouth and not having much luck. Normally at the end of the day i would pound the shoreline for largemouth, catching a few small ones.</p>

 Late Sept I ran into those feeding frenzies. Caught a bunch of smallmouth but most were 13-14" (still a blast and I decided right there smallmouth is the fish for me) and a couple of 24" largemouth - which I did not keep.
Then back to pretty much nothing again.</p>

 Dec 2 - I had been out all day with no luck as usual then caught this one - so shouldn't really make excuses for keeping him as I should have thrown it back, but again i was acting like a kid at Xmas.. </p>

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Carl Guffey

New member
<font size="3" face="georgia,palatino">Don'tfeel sorry about keeping a fish to eat. You picked one of the best as the flesh is firm and has a sweet, nutty taste. Smallmouth and Walleye are the best cool to cold water fish to enjoy. That being said, the reason most people complain about someone eating Smallmouth is they can't catch them. </font></p>

<font size="3" face="Georgia">A 5 lb fish, also, isnot a trophy. It is a good meal and I hope you enjoyed it.</font></p>
 

Hair Jig

New member
Carl Guffey - 12/11/2011 9:02 AM

<font size="3" face="georgia,palatino">Don'tfeel sorry about keeping a fish to eat. You picked one of the best as the flesh is firm and has a sweet, nutty taste. Smallmouth and Walleye are the best cool to cold water fish to enjoy. That being said, the reason most people complain about someone eating Smallmouth is they can't catch them. </font></p>

<font size="3" face="Georgia">A 5 lb fish, also, isnot a trophy. It is a good meal and I hope you enjoyed it.</font></p>
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Not a trophy? OK Carl .... how many smallmouth over 5# do you average per year? </p>

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And I stand behind my statement about killing one that size. It is the brood stock. Eat all of the little guys that you want, but the larger fish should go back.</p>

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Oh ... and I CAN catch them, btw.
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whenwegoin

New member
Don't worry about keeping any species of fish if you want to. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it regardless of what a few say. Great post.

I see where Carl was posting around the same time as I did. Amen, Carl!!
 

Hair Jig

New member
whenwegoin - 12/12/2011 8:15 AM Don't worry about keeping any species of fish if you want to. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it regardless of what a few say. Great post. I see where Carl was posting around the same time as I did. Amen, Carl!!
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Nothing wrong with killing off the brood stock? Only if you are going to do a mount on a true trophy.</p>

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Are you one of the guys who bashed TVA for killing off the milfoil that supports our fishery? Same concept.
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I have NO PROBLEM with a person keeping a trophy and having it mounted. I've done it over two dozen times myself. But the fact is ... the smaller fish actually eat better than a large one. And where would our fishery be if we killed and ate every fish that we caught over 5 pounds? Especially the smallmouth? You'll have to agree that the results would be tramatic. I'm not talking about an occassional fish, but EVERY smallmouth over 5 pounds? Can you understand this concept? </p>

If I sounded like I was bashing the OP for killing that fish, that wasn't the intent. But as dedicated fishermen, we should ALL be concerned with the population and therefore the brood stock. I have heard on this very forum guys talking about Chickamauga turning into a "trophy" lake. And while this particular fish came from Tims, it is still the same concept. If we started removing EVERY smallmouth over 5# that we caught, it would have an enormous impact on the trophy fishery. Even the most rookie fisherman should understand that.
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whenwegoin

New member
Hair Jig - 12/12/2011 11:39 AM



whenwegoin - 12/12/2011 8:15 AM Don't worry about keeping any species of fish if you want to. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it regardless of what a few say. Great post. I see where Carl was posting around the same time as I did. Amen, Carl!!
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Nothing wrong with killing off the brood stock?  Only if you are going to do a mount on a true trophy.  </p>

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Are you one of the guys who bashed TVA for killing off the milfoil that supports our fishery? Same concept.
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I have NO PROBLEM with a person keeping a trophy and having it mounted.  I've done it over two dozen times myself.  But the fact is ... the smaller fish actually eat better than a large one.  And where would our fishery be if we killed and ate every fish that we caught over 5 pounds?  Especially the smallmouth?  You'll have to agree that the results would be tramatic.  I'm not talking about an occassional fish, but EVERY smallmouth over 5 pounds?  Can you understand this concept?  </p>

If I sounded like I was bashing the OP for killing that fish, that wasn't the intent.  But as dedicated fishermen, we should ALL be concerned with the population and therefore the brood stock.  I have heard on this very forum guys talking about Chickamauga turning into a "trophy" lake.  And while this particular fish came from Tims, it is still the same concept.  If we started removing EVERY smallmouth over 5# that we caught, it would have an enormous impact on the trophy fishery.  Even the most rookie fisherman should understand that. 
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Do you REALLY want to go down this road? What is that old saying? Never argue with an idiot because he will take you down to his level and beat you with experience. Now I have left that open enough for the admins to discuss if I actually called hair jig the idiot or myself!!!

NOTHING wrong with keeping a bass every now and then, regardless of size. NOTHING. Perfectly legal as long as it is caught legally. (see posts about A-rigs).
 

Hair Jig

New member
<font color="#ff0000">Do you REALLY want to go down this road?</font>
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Oooooooo ...... NOW I'm scared!! emoLaugh </p>

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<font color="#ff0000">What is that old saying? Never argue with an idiot because he will take you down to his level and beat you with experience.</font>
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This WAS a friendly discussion .... until YOU took it in another direction. Find yourself someone else to play "internet tough guy" with. emoRolleyes </p>

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<font color="#ff0000">NOTHING wrong with keeping a bass every now and then, regardless of size. NOTHING. Perfectly legal as long as it is caught legally. (see posts about A-rigs).</font>
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LOL ... Now you're reaching for straws. Who said anything about legality? emoLaugh emoRolleyes </p>

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You need to find another topic to argue. You have no ammunition for this one. You can't stay on topic, and you can't have a reasonable discussion without getting personal and emotional. </p>

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derek81

Active member
Wow, a guy keeps a fish to eat and now we have this.......isn't that why we have a limit on fish and size restrictions to protect the fish. This fish was legal to keep, and whether it's being mounted or eaten what is it to you? I think it's that man's business if he chooses to eat what he catches and shouldn't have to hear any one else's opinion about it!
 

whenwegoin

New member
Nothing wrong with keeping a bass. Nothing. Regardless of size. From any lake. At any time. Simply nothing wrong with it. Legally, morally, or any other lly.

Not trying to scare anyone, intimidate anyone, or harm anyone. There is just nothing wrong or bad about keeping a bass.
 

Hair Jig

New member
derek81 - 12/12/2011 9:19 AM I think it's that man's business if he chooses to eat what he catches <u>and shouldn't have to hear any one else's opinion about it!</u>
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That's fine Derek ..... just remember that statement when you offer YOUR opinion on something in the future. </p>

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I just don't understand you guys. I voiced an opinion about something that I thought was important. Then I was called an idiot. Then another guy piles on. I left here a couple of years ago because of this very thing. There seems to be a group on here that "rules the roost" and if your opinion doesn't agree with theirs, or if you have a different outlook on something, they go off in the wind and scream like a bunch of schoolyard kids that had their ball taken away. You either agree ... or you're wrong. What a bunch of closed-minded folks. For what it's worth, this is the reason that this board is lacking for sponsorship and support. I came back because I live here and wanted to share insight and information with some local people that have the same interests. But that isn't the case. Same as it was the last time I was here. And this isn't just my opinion, because I have heard this same discussion at local fishing retailers. This "should" be a friendly board where local anglers can come and have fellowship as well as friendly discussions about their thoughts and views on our local fisheries. But as long as this infantile mindset is here and the chosen few continue to play Chuck Norris with the keyboard, it isn't going to happen. The membership here is never going to grow until it becomes a nice place to visit. And that's a real shame. But I'm sure that the half-dozen who rule the boards won't mind that at all. Their opinions will stand and they'll never have to worry about someone contesting them. What an interesting way to live..............................</p>

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derek81

Active member
Hair Jig - 12/12/2011 9:31 AM



derek81 - 12/12/2011 9:19 AM I think it's that man's business if he chooses to eat what he catches and shouldn't have to hear any one else's opinion about it!
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That's fine Derek ..... just remember that when you offer YOUR opinion on something in the future.   </p>

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I just don't understand you guys.  I voiced an opinion about something that I thought was important.  Then I was called an idiot.  Then another guy piles on.  I left here a couple of years ago because of this very thing.  There seems to be a group on here that "rules the roost" and if your opinion doesn't agree with theirs, or if you have a different outlook on something, they go off in the wind and scream like a bunch of schoolyard kids that had their ball taken away.  You either agree ... or you're wrong.  What a bunch of closed-minded folks.  For what it's worth, this is the reason that this board is lacking for sponsorship and support.  I came back because I live here and wanted to share insight and information with some local people that have the same interests.  But that isn't the case.  Same as it was the last time I was here.   And this isn't just my opinion, because I have heard this same discussion at local fishing retailers.  This "should" be a friendly board where local anglers can come and have fellowship as well as friendly discussions about their thoughts and views on our local fisheries.  But as long as this infantile mindset is here and the chosen few continue to play Chuck Norris with the keyboard, it isn't going to happen.  The membership here is never going to grow until it becomes a nice place to visit.  And that's a real shame.  But I'm sure that the half-dozen who rule the boards won't mind that at all.  Their opinions will stand and they'll never have to worry about someone contesting them.  What an interesting way to live..............................
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Yeah, I will share my opinion but I'm not going to tell a man what he can and can't eat.......you need to re-read the entire post, you kind if seem like an argumentative person from what you've posted here, but maybe not. Either way if a guy decides he wants to eat a 5lb SM i think that's his is business, just can't figure out why someone would think it's their business to tell them not to. emoPoke emoScratch
 

Hair Jig

New member
Yeah, I will share my opinion but I'm not going to tell a man what he can and can't eat.......you need to re-read the entire post, you kind if seem like an argumentative person from what you've posted here, but maybe not.
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I didn't start ANY argument. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your pre-conceived opinion of my statements. I was simply trying to educate. What were you two guys doing? emoScratch </p>

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Either way if a guy decides he wants to eat a 5lb SM i think that's his is business, just can't figure out why someone would think it's their business to tell them not to. emoPoke emoScratch
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Like I said ... education. If your best friend decides to stick his finger in the electrical outlet, should you advise him of the possible outcome? Is that your business? There's absolutely nothing wrong with a person voicing his opinion on an internet board. And if he does voice an opinion, he shouldn't be called an idiot or called out in the manner in which you guys just did. Feel free to disagree ... that's what makes for education and understanding. But telling someone that they're wrong by belittlement or other infantile means is simply asking for a conflict. I came into this discussion trying to be helpful. Everyone else came here trying to escalate the issue by being adamant about their personal beliefs. I explained my thoughts and theories about why I thought that killing that size fish was detrimental to the population. However, nobody bothered to say why I was WRONG about that. All I have heard was that it is OK to eat a fish. If you guys want to argue my statements, then you should at least come up with a sound reason why taking adult brood stock out of the population is not detrimental. Not yet have I seen that point discussed ... and that WAS my point. But for some reason my statement was twisted into something else that you WANTED it to be. emoRolleyes </p>

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derek81

Active member
Hair Jig - 12/12/2011 10:36 AM



Yeah, I will share my opinion but I'm not going to tell a man what he can and can't eat.......you need to re-read the entire post, you kind if seem like an argumentative person from what you've posted here, but maybe not.
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I didn't start ANY argument.  Perhaps you should re-evaluate your pre-conceived opinion of my statements.  I was simply trying to educate.  What were you two guys doing?   emoScratch </p>

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Either way if a guy decides he wants to eat a 5lb SM i think that's his is business, just can't figure out why someone would think it's their business to tell them not to. emoPoke emoScratch
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Like I said ... education.  If your best friend decides to stick his finger in the electrical outlet, should you advise him of the possible outcome?  Is that your business?  There's absolutely nothing wrong with a person voicing his opinion on an internet board.  And if he does voice an opinion, he shouldn't be called an idiot or called out in the manner in which you guys just did.  Feel free to disagree ... that's what makes for education and understanding.  But telling someone that they're wrong by belittlement or other infantile means is simply asking for a conflict.  I came into this discussion trying to be helpful.  Everyone else came here trying to escalate the issue by being adamant about their personal beliefs.  I explained my thoughts and theories about why I thought that killing that size fish was detrimental to the population.  However, nobody bothered to say why I was WRONG about that.  All I have heard was that it is OK to eat a fish.  If you guys want to argue my statements, then you should at least come up with a sound reason why taking adult brood stock out of the population is not detrimental.  Not yet have I seen that point discussed ... and that WAS my point.  But for some reason my statement was twisted into something else that you WANTED it to be.  emoRolleyes </p>

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Wow...I really don't know what else to say that you won't have some off the wall response.......trying to compare stopping someone from being electricuted and telling someone not to eat a bass is way over my head so I think this is where I will step out. emoWorthy emoApplause
 

donberry

New member
okay, - how's this. No matter the opinion, I personally have zero doubt that everyone has nothing but the best intent for the fishing stock and this debate would be like discussing politics or religion in that no one is going to change their mind by what is or is not said here.
In the end we all just enjoy fishing and I am sure all of the anglers here are much better on the environment than the vast majority of people.

As for me, I doubt you have to worry about me ruining the brood stock on Tims Ford , at least not yet anyway (fingers crossed I get much better). For now, since I am catching so few, I would have had a hard time not keeping that fish to eat. In an entire summer of fishing, I have kept one smallmouth to eat - actually I have only kept one black bass period to eat as i threw the 2 24" largemouth back. I also threw back a few 15" smallmouth which will be explained in a bit)

Now I am going to have to do some serious research as I honestly have never given it much thought. Fishing with my brother growing up we mainly caught crappie plus he did not eat fish so normally did not keep a lot anyway.
But off the top of my head, I could be wrong and I usually am, but maybe we have it backwards. I would tend to think a bass does not get big by genes, but from experience. I would think that gene wise there is nothing really differentiating a "wary" gene from a big parent or a smaller one, but it is the experience the bass gains. Get caught once or watch a few friends or family members leave the school at the end of a hook and they learn to start being more careful what they eat.
This has always been my prevailing theory
MAYBE (I will do serious research) if we want bigger bass we should be throwing back those 15" ones, not the big ones. I think it is safe to say that most people would say a 15" bass is just about perfect eating size - and I can not imagine how many of those 15"-16" bass leave the lake during the year. I always figured those are the ones I should put back. I do not believe fish (or animals) are as stupid as we think they are (tho with any species, including humans, there are always some stupid ones - my wife would say that is me).
That 5+ pound bass got that way because he learned to be wary of anglers and what not to eat. If i throw back that 15" bass, my way of thinking is he has learned a pretty valuable lesson and there is a pretty good chance he is not going to be fooled so easily next time - so he ends up growing into the 5+ pound fish.
Does not take a 5+ lber to make another 5 + lber - it takes a wary fish, and catching and releasing those 15" ones should be making a whole bunch of them pretty wary.
Make sense ?
Basically comes down to this - is it the genes that make a 5 lb fish or is it the "environment", and by that I pretty much mean experience.
Put a bunch of 15" bass in a swimming pool, some how marked so you can easily identify them. let them get to be 12-13" and then start fishing for them. I think it would be a pretty safe bet that if you watched them, any fish that has already been caught once are not the first ones in line the next time I drop some bait down there - they are going to be more careful about what they eat. They have experienced being abducted by aliens and it was a pretty painful experience, not one they want repeated.
Those would be the fish that end up growing into the 5 lbers - of courseas mentioned, there are always stupid ones. Can't say how many times I have done something stupid and then repeated it - if I were a bass, i would not have gotten to 5 lbs.

Anyway - I never kept the vast majority of my catch so i never gave it much thought. What i do know is when I was keeping fish, I let a whole bunch go with the thought I hoped I could catch him later when he got bigger.
Those 2 24" largemouth. I grew up in middle Ohio and largemouth and crappie were the fish we hunted. I normally always went with my brother, or I went to the places he had found, doing what I saw him do, and I don't claim to have been an expert angler, but I caught a lot of fish and thought myself pretty proficient. Was not an every week occurrence, but I caught my fair share of really nice largemouth. I could catch say a 25" one that had a huge belly and was a trophy size fish, but I also caught a decent share of say 24" ones that had just not seemed like they had "matured" yet - more slender and still had some good growing to do.
I was always more aware of releasing the 24" fish that still seemed like he had some growing to do. The big fat 25" one (obviously taking for granted it was not a belly full of eggs), i just thought of it as it was that fish's time. Always thankful to it, I was more apt to keep him than the 24" one.
That 24" one - now it was going to grow into the big fish, the object of my quest in a year or so. having been caught he would now be even more wary so I thought he was going to stand a good chance of getting that huge belly and putting on weight.

I have not analyzed it yet, but an interesting read may be here - Tennessee Smallmouth Management Plan.
From just a very fast glance, a few things I found interesting. It talks about stream smallmouth and reservoir smallmouth.
stream smallmouth - a survey showed a low abundance of quality sized fish. - Thing is, I did not know this but when fishing streams, there is no size limit. Still 5 a day but you can keep any size. Tells me there are not big fish because every one keeps the small fish. They don't get big because of genes, they don't get big because of no size limit (for me, just reinforces me releasing a 15" one over say a 21" one) as the survey also showed not a lot of pressure on the Duck River, so not a ton of pressure but still no abundance of big fish - yet their is no size limit.
Reservoir bass sustain a much higher angler catch and harvest rate.
Studies suggest that coolwater species such as smallmouth bass are more susceptible to post-release mortality (I would think a younger 15" bass would survive better than a 21" 5 1/2 lb that literally wore himself out to total exhaustion coming in)

Some lakes are able to produce high numbers of fish, but growth and mortality limit the abundance of large fish (again, takes those 15" bass to become 21" ones)

The paper then has a section concerning trophy size fish in reservoirs and what they can do to increase them. They are not increasing the numbers of trophy size fish by having people let the big ones go - no, you increase the trophy size fish by having larger size limits - which to me, reinforces my thoughts about big bass do not get that way because of genes, but because as they get older they get more wary. Release that 15" fish and he stands a better chance of being more wary and getting older.

Anyway - i would imagine like most debates anyone can find something to reinforce their ideas.
i just don't think u need to worry about me ruining Tims Ford.
Hopefully by next year i will be catching a bunch of fish per trip but that does not mean i will be eating fish every day.
 

Hair Jig

New member
derek81 - 12/12/2011 11:01 AM Wow...I really don't know what else to say that you won't have some off the wall response.......trying to compare stopping someone from being electricuted and telling someone not to eat a bass is way over my head so I think this is where I will step out. emoWorthy emoApplause
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In other words ..... You still can't come up with anything to base your end of the argument on and tell me WHY it's not a good idea to replace the brood stock? emoPoke </p>

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Sorry that my simple parable about the electrical outlet and giving a friend cautionary advice went over your head. I'll try to simplify it even more next time.</p>

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Hair Jig

New member
donberry - 12/12/2011 11:04 AM okay, - how's this. No matter the opinion, I personally have zero doubt that everyone has nothing but the best intent for the fishing stock and this debate would be like discussing politics or religion in that no one is going to change their mind by what is or is not said here.
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Agreed. I just had an issue with the way that it was handled.</p>

Anyway ... you are starting to understand what I was saying. It is still "up in the air" that releasing the larger fish is beneficial to the fishery. Some populations and their surrounding conditions have different outcomes. However, if nothing else you are allowing another angler (possibly someone's young son or daughter) the chance to catch that large fish that you released. And it is common sense that the larger the female, the more eggs she will lay. This in and of itself should support the practice of releasing the largest ones to allow them a chance to reproduce. As you have already found, different bodies of water have different regulations on size limits and some have slot limits. We can only hope that the game biologists that have put these regulations into place know what they are doing, and that they have done their due diligence accordingly. </p>

As for fish becoming "wary", I'm not sure I buy into that theory. I've caught 4# & 5# fish with worm hooks (and sometimes the worm) lodged in their jaw. I don't give a bass that much credit. Bill Dance once said that a fish has never had an original thought in it's life. I agree with that statement. Of course, they know what their food looks like, and if they don't bite the lure that you're throwing then some folks will refer to them as "smart". I'd rather say that they can "compare" ... for lack of a better term. </p>

If I in any way insulted or angered you by suggesting that the fish should have been released, please accept my sincere apology. That was not my intent. But since you have done this research, I believe that you can see my point when I said that these larger fish should be returned to the water. And if you want some to eat, the smaller ones taste better anyway. If you continue to challenge yourself, you'll soon be catching more fish than you can carry home. Then you can cull out the smaller ones and enjoy them at the table.</p>

Best of luck to you! Tims Ford is a tough lake to learn, but if you don't try to complicate it too much, you'll get it figured out soon enough. emoThumbsup </p>

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